Author Topic: faktografske i ostale pogreske u SPR  (Read 2624 times)

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Offline Hajdarovic

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faktografske i ostale pogreske u SPR
« on: November 11, 2010, 15:47:52 »
Nisam do sada obraćao pažnju, ali večeras sam nakon dugo vremena ponovno gledao Saving Pvt. Ryan i pronašao jednu pogrešku, koja nije sama po sebi bitna, ali kad su se već trudili staviti film u realne povijesne okvire...

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Spremao sam se dati podatke iz H.v. Luckove knjge PANZER COMMANDER, ali, valjda vođen šestim čulom, sinkronicitetom, ili nečim sličnim, utipkao sam SAVING PRIVATE RYAN u Google i našao tražemo...
Ukratko, promašili su "ceo fudbal"! Stavili su H.v.Lucka na krivu plažu u krivo vrijeme i protiv krivih Saveznika:

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Kampfgruppe von Luck

In May of 1944 Major Hans von Luck took command of the 125th Panzergrenadier Regiment of the 21st Panzer Division. These forces were stationed near Caen, France on June 6th, 1944.

Although von Luck and his men were prepared to launch counterattacks against either the nearby landings on Sword Beach, or the paratroopers who had landed inland earlier that morning, such movements against the British were delayed by the lack of authorization from higher authorities. Kampfgruppe von Luck was eventually ordered to attack the British paratroopers located on the east bank of the Orne River near Ranville.

In the film, Charlie Company is said to have captured twenty-three soldiers belonging to the 346th Infantry Division, Kampfgruppe Von Luck, during operations to clear out Sector 4 on June 9th (D-Day +3).

Kampfgruppe is the German word for battlegroup. Major von Luck's battlegroup was usually referred to as Kampfgruppe Luck.

http://www.sproe.com/k/kampfgruppe.html

Kad sam već na Ryanu, iako je riječ o fiktivnom događaju, uvijek me je nervirala bitka za Ramelle, tj. način na koji Nijemci [ne]napadaju, pa sam i to pogledao:
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One of the most heavily criticized scenes in the film, the Battle of Ramelle is not a textbook example of how a German unit would attack a small defending force in the rubble of a village. The closing battle is designed to support the plot and the drama, and not represent a history lesson on German tactics. A good example is the belltower that Jackson and Parker set themselves up in. Although the structure had obviously already been hit before, the tower itself was still intact and made a perfect sniper's nest. Before entering the village the Germans should have leveled that tower in order to deny their defender's a place from which to fire on them.

http://www.sproe.com/r/ramelle.html
Osim toga SPR smješta I. SS oklopni korpus u okolicu r. Merderet!!? Pa još specijalno naglašavaju da ih napada 2. SS okl. div. koja je došla u srpnju, a angažirala se protiv Britanaca.

Audaces fortuna iuvat!

Offline Hajdarovic

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Re: faktografske i ostale pogreske u SPR
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 16:10:49 »
Malo sam guglao i face na internetu su otkrili jos poneke greske npr.:

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The Tiger tanks portrayed in the movie are actually Soviet T-34s. You could tell by looking at their wheels. Real Tigers had interleaved wheels. These Tigers clearly had the T-34 suspension. Obviously, Tigers were so rare that another tank had to be substituted. But an excellent job was done to make the T-34s look like Tigers.

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Any time you see an American soldier in the movie. The American troops are wearing black boots, and the AB guys are wearing black jumpboots. The Army at that time was using a russett brown for all their boots. Even the low quarter boots that were used with the leggings were russett brown. The military didn't go to black boots until the late 1940's early 1950's.

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Even more glaring is the fact that the 1st SS Panzer Korps hadn't arrived yet, the 12th SS Panzer Division was NOT operating in the American sector, 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion and II SS Panzer Korps wouldn't be in Normandy until July, and the only SS unit fighting the US Paratroops was 17th SS PGD which had assault guns for armor. THERE WERE NO TIGER I TANKS IN NORMANDY at the time the U.S. forces were fighting in the movie Saving Private Ryan. The 17th SS with its SGIV ended up attacking Northeast against Caretan on June 13. It is somewhat immaterial that the Tiger tanks used in the movie weren't 'actual Tigers'.

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I have watched saving Private Ryan several times. Every time I hear the characters at the end say "P-51 TANK Busters" it makes me laugh.
THERE WAS NO SUCH THING.
The P-51C and P-51D was intended as an air superiority fighter for use against enemy aircraft. They used the same Rolls Royce engine (RR-Merlin) as the Spitfire MkIX but built under contract by Packard (Packard-Merlin). The P-51D was built for speed at altitude against advanced German fighters.
Many P-51 flew on D-Day- mostly at altitude to keep the Luftwaffe from being able to launch ground attack missions over the beach head. This was successful as only two German fighters (BF-109s) flew over the Normandy beaches on D-Day.
(The early underpowered non-supercharged P-51s "Mustangs bought by the RAF were used for ground attack in 1940 and 1941. The USAAF briefly used the Allison Powered P-51A/B in this role.)
Also the USAAF generally did not employ single engine attack aircraft in close air support of ground forces. German ground units were equipped with too many 20mm, 37mm and 88mm cannon to make this a feasable tactic.
The Army Air Corps generally used the P-47 for ground attack role against convoys and trains with 5 inch rockets well behind German lines. The P-47 was a very much LARGER more robust plane (a P-51 looked like a toy beside one) with a very tough air cooled Pratt and Wittney WASP radial engine. The P-47 also carried eight .50 caliber machineguns (vs. P-51s six) and when these were equipped with armor piercing bullets these were very effective against convoys -including tanks moving to the front- and locomotives. Each P-47 could also carry about twice the bombs or rockets of a P-51. The P-47 could carry a 1000lb bomb AND eight rockets on the same mission (the P-51 could carry two 250s OR six rockets but not both at the same time.) The P-47 was generally not used for close air support of us forces. The US Army doctrine of the time greatly favoring massed artillery fire or medium bombers instead.
THE USMC did develop and perfect close air support in the Pacific Theater of Operations but that's another story.
Late model P-51s such as the P-51Ds in the movie were generally restricted to altitudes above 5000 ft over enemy territory. They were generally used for escort and air superiority missions (fighter sweeps etc).
I believe most of the ground attack squadrons used over the Normandy beach area were actually RAF Typhoons or Tempests. Some of these may have executed missions over the American beaches- I don't know. i do believe there were scheduled breaks in the naval shelling on d-day when allied aircraft reconnoitered and bombed over the lodgment area.) The P-47 was generally used for "deeper" attacks against German ground units in rear areas.
It is my understanding that the USAAF mostly used medium bombers over Normandy. These flew parallel to the coast and bombed targets from medium altitudes so as not to conflict with naval gunnery or shore based artillery.
Audaces fortuna iuvat!

Offline Dinko

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Re: faktografske i ostale pogreske u SPR
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 21:59:14 »
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Any time you see an American soldier in the movie. The American troops are wearing black boots, and the AB guys are wearing black jumpboots. The Army at that time was using a russett brown for all their boots. Even the low quarter boots that were used with the leggings were russett brown. The military didn't go to black boots until the late 1940's early 1950's.

Baš malo bacam oko na SPR i Armija ima "dobre" čizme, ali su sa padobrancima stvarno fulali.
"True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same."
- Robert E. Lee